Rule Adjustments Part II

[sahearniitth]

From member discussion, I figure we can discuss/adress the following rules.

1) Do away with going negative (doesnt apply alot once someones been in shell for over a month)
2) Increase new member probation from 1 run to 4 runs.
3) Reducing the penalty of probation/negative lotting to bidded tiers (if we remove negative bidding this would only apply to probation members)

Stuff I would like to see more member discussion on before we decide on a possible policy change
1) Remove lowering of bids
2) Change matching rules to only apply if a raise was made after your post (My opinions on this are that it wont solve anything but if it will make the masses happy, its not a big change)
3) Probation length and the criteria for falling in Probation

Stuff I am in strong opposition of at this time
Changing the rules so that you cannot lot an item unless you post a bid. Again my thoughts on this are clear in the thread about tule changes, and we ALREADY give priority within a tier to people who post so basically this change is to facilitate people from lower tiers getting items before higher tiers which I have issue with.


Anything I missed? Any thoughts, please post.

[Aceris]

I agree that its kind of weird to have "old" members come back to the 4 run probationary period while new members just have a 1 run probation period. So I'm not in any way opposed to this change.

About going negative I'm not so sure I care enough about "sublotters" to merit this change. If we impose a 4 run probationary period for new members I really don't see the problem of mainlotters going negative maybe thats just me.

As for probation lotting I don't really care either way thats up to you guys.

Again I'll reiterate what I said I've always loved and honored the RB way of mainlots trumping sublots and even though I don't play much anymore I'd not have it any other way. However, since we take so much time refining the system and the rules based on the system doesn't anyone else feel that more people should use the system the way its intended to be used? I'm not saying not to GIVE the item to main lotters and give it to sublotters but I think that at least a penalty should be incurred for not taking the 5-10 mins to come to the forums place a bid and at least keep up with current affairs in the LS at least. Let's face it if your too lazy to place a bid I HIGHLY doubt the member in question even bothers coming to the LS website at all at times.

[Caskaa]

Here are my thoughts.

In my mind, main lots should ALWAYS, always have priority over lower tiered lots. We can institute a 4 run probation for new members, sure. That way on their 5th run they'll have 5 points, which is the minimum bid for northlands AF anyway, ensuring they have enough points.

Those posting about wanting to ban those who don't bid from lotting, those people do not have the interests of this linkshell at heart. They want to work around the system in order to get the AF2 they want, as quickly as possible, and by spending as few points as they possibly can. Is there some reason it's so painful to see a person who is MAINLOTTING a job win that Relic? Even if they didn't bid...so what? They are a Main Lot. Yes, it'd be super if they took 5 minutes out of the 3 days to visit the site and bid, and most people do. Who is it that is consistently not bidding and winning exactly? Why don't we just ask them to bid instead of considering a rule change. If its a few people, and they are consistently not bidding, then lets just ask them to start.

More likely, its varying people who probably just forgot. A few weeks ago, I forgot. Would I seriously be penalized for that? Because if we are considering it at all, we can't make exceptions. Seriously, I'd go ballistic if I was penalized and couldn't bid at Valkurm and had to watch a new SMN win the -1 piece before me. That already happened and 26(I think) runs later, it still hasn't dropped. But if we made an exception for me since everyone knows i always vastly overbid on the item, well then we have to make an exception for everyone, or its favoritism...

Basically my point is, telling Mainlots they can't bid causes a lot more problems in my mind than making those on SUB lots wait a little longer. Its like, 2 people who are even complaining about this. Sometimes people are busy at work or lose their internet or who knows what but sometimes you just forget to bid.

Sub70 and Sub60 Relic is not the point of this linkshell. We are here to get Relic for Mainlots. Sub70 and 60 Relic is purely a bonus and nothing else. If you get that, you should be jumping for joy, because in my mind, thats purely luck. None of us should be entering a zone with the intent of winning sub lot Relic over a Main Lot. But maybe I'm just too altruistic, or it's easy for me to say considering I hate my sub60 job and there is no Relic for my sub70 job.

theres my thoughts though. I think we already have too many convoluted rules. I don't want to see conditional rules in place which would allow subs to win relic over mains. I simply don't see why subs begrudge those mains getting their Relic.

[Aceris]

I have no clue why other members don't want mainlotters getting their relic thats not the intention of my argument at all. I just have a pet peeve about people not coming to the website at all and spending a little time posting bids, reading up on current events, rule changes, things to bring to the next run etc. I don't really play much so I really don't care less about who sublots what and who's getting what via mainlot. My concern is with people not showing up to bid on items, vote on new applicants, look at rules, looking up current events. Would save us alot of trouble if people actually kept up with this stuff instead of having SHs tell the punks to come here and read the crap all the time thats for sure.

When I mentioned "penalty" I never even thought about NOT letting mainlotters take the relic. I was inferring to an extra point deduction or something of that nature. More of a thing to annoy people who don't bid to at least make them think a little about it before totally ignoring it for w/e reason.

[Caskaa]

Ah ok I can see what you mean there with the penalty. So, for example, lets say the minimum bid on an item is 5 points. If someone didn't post a bid, automatically add on 1 or 2 points as a penalty?

That would work but you'd have to allow people to go negative. probably more than one point would cause complaints.

Could consider raising the min point bid for CoP area items too.

[Aceris]

caskaa said:

Ah ok I can see what you mean there with the penalty. So, for example, lets say the minimum bid on an item is 5 points. If someone didn't post a bid, automatically add on 1 or 2 points as a penalty?

That would work but you'd have to allow people to go negative. probably more than one point would cause complaints.

Could consider raising the min point bid for CoP area items too.

Yes Caskaa thats exactly what I meant. While it probably won't change anything it will at least serve 2 functions for the LS.

1) People will have to think a bit before not posting a bid to see if they want to spend an extra point or two gaining an item they would have otherwise gotten a bit cheaper.

2) The tards that are complaining about mainlots not bidding and getting stuff will now have to stfu cause there's a penalty for mainlotters not bidding now and getting stuff.

Overall its not really a big change but at least it'll satisfy my pet peeve and the idiots whining about mainlotters not bidding.

[Circan]

With the lack of competition for items, and the points surplus it's starting to create, an all-around raise in point cost might be considered. For northland and CoP items more than starting cities. It might at least have a couple people show up to city runs to build points.

As for how much of an increase, +2 to everything wouldn't be outrageous. And that's both mainlot and sublot.

As for other issues, I think what we have is fair, but w/e the membership feels they want the most would be the choice to go with...

[Aceris]

Well you guys know how I feel about rule amendments/changes and all that jazz. Just throw w/e you feel should be changed out there and let the membership talk to us about it and we'll fix it as we go along. No point in thinking every little thing to death when in reality it might not get passed through membership anyway.

[sahearniitth]

Posted Polls and discussion threads for members to partake in. Sh are free to post comments there but post them as opinions, not statements of fact or policy please.

Based on the poll results and comments/discussion we can look into what to do with the rule adjustments I posted about.

Also afrter we are done dealing with the ones I posted we can discuss what Aceris's compromise is (which seems reasonable enough) as far as non posted bids go.